Jeff_N asked:
Back then, it was the cradle of civilization, a center of comerce, trade, philosophy(along with greece). The first codes of law were written here. Many advances in medicine, astronomy, mathematics and many other sciences were made during the middle ages. Islam had nothing to do with these. If it did, they would be as lousy as medieval Europeans. The same thing were done in china and india, though maybe at an earlier time, but much of these developments were independent from china and india.
So, why is the middle east all crappy now? The mongols did end the abbadsid dynasty, a rich period of for everything, though i doubt thats all to it.
For the same reason as many other powers have declined over history. At a certain point, you get too big and too wealthy. Your size forces you to spend too much of the government resources on the military and the rich begin to focus on the glory of consumption over investment. Meanwhile, other nations which are hungrier have the advantage of borrowing your high-tech and using it to leapfrog their science and technology past you. Then all of a sudden, you wake up one morning to find that you are no longer the top dog and its too late to recover.
Comment by Tmess2 — August 21, 2007 @ 7:53 pm
THE MIDDLE EAST IS A SHADOW OF ITS FORMER SELF DUE TO THE CONSTANT WARRING BETWEEN, THE ISLAMIC SECTS, AND ALSO IN SOME PART TO THE CHRISTIAN CRUSADES WHICH HELPED TO DESTABILIZE THE REGION.
YOU ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT THE EUROPEAN INTERVENTION INTO THE KINGDOMS OF THE MIDDLE EAST, THE THREE KINGDOMS THE TURKS, SHIA AND SUNNI EMPIRES. THE EUROPEANS LEAD BY THE BRITISH SLOWLY UNSTABILIZED THE REGION BY INTRODUCING SOME DRUGS (LIKE THEY DID IN CHINA) AND BUYING THE LANDS OF THE EMPERORS UNTIL THE KINGDOMS COULD NOT SUPPORT THEMSELVES WITHOUT THE AID OF THE BRITISH.
THE FINAL BLOW TO THE REGION WAS THE INTRODUCTION AND SPREAD OF RADICAL ISLAM, WHICH PROMOTES “SHARIA” OR ISLAMIC LAW. WHILE NOT COMPLETELY REPRESSIVE IN TERMS OF EDUCATION AND ADVANCEMENT, EVERYTHING HINGES ON APPROVAL OF AN INTERPRETATION OF ISLAMIC LAW, WHICH AS DEMONSTRATED BY AFGHANISTAN CAN SERVE TO SEVERLY LIMIT A CULTURE AND A PEOPLE IF APPLIED UNJUSTLY.
DONT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE OIL TRADE EITHER, WHILE I DONT HAVE OR KNOW OF ANY SIGNIFICANT PROOF, ONE CANNOT HELP BUT TO WONDER HOW THE VALUABLE COMMODITY OF OIL HAS PLAYED INTO THAT.
Comment by SGT G — August 24, 2007 @ 5:49 am
Their downfall began in the 19th century when European powers, especially France and England colonized many of the Middle Eastern countries. After World War II, the United States took up where they left off. More recently, the Iran/Iraq war devastated both those countries by destroying their economic systems and infrastructures. Also, the prevalence over the past 20 or so years of dissident groups taking over the countries and establishing “sharia” or Islamic Law has hurt many of those countries financially and through terrorizing their own people.
Comment by PDY — August 25, 2007 @ 3:56 am
Because they are struggling to adapt to change.
The West began to modernise from the 1500s in philosophy, throwing off religious restraint on science and humanism. This led to a flourishing of technology and a faith in the future and in science.
The Ottomans failed to adapt properly to this and gradually religious fundamentalism took hold as a defense against change and progress, which were seen as threatening, damaging forces. In the West, too, there was this reaction against modernism which in large part produced the religious wars of the 17th and 18th Centuries.
There are also specific problems such as the Shia versus Sunni traditions that fundamentally divided Islam from its early days, and the corrupt Ottoman rule that gave special power and status to Imams and religious leaders, power which they still have today by tradition and which prevent separation of church and state.
We are today seeing in the US the retreat to religious fundamentalism that always happens when great change is seen as a threat, rather than an opportunity, by some groups. It is the same problem on a different scale in a different culture.
Comment by llordlloyd — August 25, 2007 @ 3:15 pm
An elite group of fanatics insist that all advancement is evil (except when they use it to kill others that do not think like them) can we say “fanatical hypocrites”
Comment by Dcruza — August 27, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
sun – a – rise, sunset.
Firstly, I’d imagine that life in the middle east is considerably better now than it was 1000 or 2000 years ago – any decline is comparitive and i don’t think there is any reason to believe that any place can indefinately retain a large advantage over all the other places on earth in terms of culture, commerce, science and power.
However, if i had to hazard a guess, i’d say that the middle east was less capable of supporting a massive increase in population, so that when the population of Europe expanded in the 18th and 19th centuries they started to lag behind. Furthermore, the Europeans would have been in a better position to reach and colonise America than those in the middle east, thereby spreading their influence throughout the world.
A note on Islam, during the golden age of Islam, much of the knowledge that was lost to medieval Europe was retained in the Arab world and from what I understand they remained leaders in science and mathematics, so i’m not sure you can blame it all on that.
Comment by Chris tf — August 29, 2007 @ 6:54 am
Because they didn’t have Muslim fanatics in ancient times!
Comment by texasjewboy12 — August 30, 2007 @ 9:28 pm